Posted by George Goble on October 23, 2000 at 16:28:12: via: or 128.211.159.12
In Reply to: Gee George, you paint a dark picture of PAG and I gather R-134a posted by NickD on October 22, 2000 at 22:57:07:
PAG oil is OK as long as it is
1) kept dry, 10ppm range - standard of refrigerants - hard to do.
GM still ships oil in plastic bottles, even though the stationery
industry abandoned PAG testing around 1992 or so, and uses
POE (ester), that is still more moisture grabbing than mineral, but
much less moisture grabbing then PAG.. HVAC industry has shipped
POE in metal cans only since they found moisture permeates
plastic bottles. PAG is about 10X more mositure grabbing than POE.
PAG, in general, has better lubricity than POE.
2) kept away from chlorides (traces of R12). System must have
never had R12 or HCFC in it. Daphne (double end capped) PAG can
resist chlorides much better, some even say it can run in
100% R12. Daphne is more expensive, and I know of no OEMs
using it... It is "better for business" to not use Daphne
PAG and let traces of R12 and chloride coatings "do their job"
on retrofits.. so a new car is purchased sooner.
On the hole... dunno... we do know that chlorine monoxide
(but did that come from freon?) destroys ozone.. The "holes"
only form at the south pole and sometimes the north pole; they
need darkness and super cold air and the unusual wind patterns
to form... when the light returns and temps warm up, the holes
dissapate. Only rarely does a "hole" "nick" a populated area,
like the lip of S. America. Ozone over the rest of the planet
is reduced a little, but the UV light and thunderstorms regenerate
it.
Check out the book:
"The Holes in the Ozone Scare - The scientific evidence that the
sky isn't falling" by Rogelio A Maduro and Ralf Schauerhammer.
Publ by 21st Century Science Associates, Wash DC. 1992. 703-777-7473.
ISBN: 0-9628134-0-0. Lib of Congr Cat # 92-64062
Whether or not "Freon" causes all this.. I dunno, but the laws
are in place, and many are using this to get rich, reduce life
of equipment, sell you things you dont need, etc... so we all
have to live with it.
On the acid forming from moisture.. the answer is not to
build "acid resistant" evaporators, etc.. but to prevent the
moisture and reaction in the first place. HVAC systems have
no aluminum (use copper), and are more or less "acid resistant",
but the acids build up, cause the copper to "plate" around
from pipes onto compressor bearings, oil breaks down, compressor
insulation fails.. you still end up with failures..may take
slightly longer is all. Putting in Dry-Pak
and proving the system dry with a Green Dry-eye while still
new will go a long way to getting a long life out of a PAG oil
system.
--ghg